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Message 1 of 10

Help needed for vulnerable UK relative with no phone for the past year

Hello I need help! and thanks in advance for reading this long post. For almost a year I’ve been trying to resolve the telephone problems of my elderly aunt in the UK who is vulnerable/at-risk, has certain challenges, and has no family members nearby to help, since we all live in another country. I have spent many hours online and on the phone with BT trying to remedy her telephone issues that began in August 2023, when she was assisted or induced to switch her former landline telephone service to BT. My aunt has never had a computer or mobile phone. Up until last year, she has depended for communication on what we assume was a traditional copper landline, although she may also for years have been paying for a broadband service she never used.

In August 2023 her telephone service was switched to BT as “digital home phone service with number import” and that’s when the problems began. Her phone stopped receiving calls and then stopped working altogether. We have now been unable to speak with her for almost a year, as she has had no working landline since then.

My aunt struggled with the more complex BT digital technology and equipment, and for unknown reasons did not pay her mailed paper bills. She received no help with paying her BT bills, or with setting up direct debit, despite her family’s numerous written requests to those purportedly helping her. Ultimately her BT phone service was terminated for non-payment. I was able to find this out only via several calls to BT from my country in late 2023 when I fortunately connected with a couple of kind and helpful agents, although they were limited in the information they were allowed to give me.

At the end of 2023 I and two others were appointed as Deputies by the UK Court of Protection to manage my aunt’s affairs, but it then took several months more to process the court order. With that finally in hand, I recently called BT again and despite giving them my aunt’s name, address and former phone number, they apparently have no record of her account. We don’t have her former account number, and we also don’t know the name of her telephone service provider previous to BT.

I realize that PSTN copper landlines are being phased out in the UK, but am trying to find out if anyone could please clarify:

1.  Whether traditional analog copper landlines are still available for vulnerable elderly users like my aunt who struggle with digital technology and have always depended on an ordinary landline for communication.

2.  Which UK companies, if any, still provide a copper landline service in the northwest.

3.  Whether her (assumed) former copper landline service would have been removed or disabled in August 2023 when her account was switched to BT.

4.  Whether a copper landline would be required to be reinstated had my aunt been induced/coerced into switching to BT’s digital service, which is what we believe happened.

Attempting to remedy the situation by calling BT from another country is unwieldy and impractical. BT does not appear to be reachable by email unless one has an account. After much searching I found a complaint email address, not that it helped in any way since my communications to that address in November 2023 went unanswered. Therefore I would very much appreciate any help or insight.

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Message 2 of 10

Re: Help needed for vulnerable UK relative with no phone for the past year

Hi @Gruddely 

Sorry to hear. I have also flagged this post to the moderators to see if they can help with trying to get things sorted for the BT account. Also if you have POA you can also get that registered with BT to allow you to manage the account on your aunt's behalf - https://www.bt.com/help/account-and-billing/what-power-of-attorney--poa--does-bt-accept-

As to who the previous provider was, it would be best to check your aunt's bank statements as that should hopefully highlight who it maybe.

As to your other questions.

1. Providers are no longer able to provide new customers traditional analogue phone services since September 2023 as a stop sell of these services now applies. This stop sell also applies to existing customers who make changing their products and services as an example.

When moved to a Digital landline service such as BT Digital Voice in most cases you can continue to use your existing home phone handsets (if they are relatively modern) by either plugging the phone into the back of the provided Smart Hub or using a adapter. Let BT know if extra support is needed to set things up.

In terms of support for vulnerable customers, if the provider has a record that they are vulnerable and have a telecare or care alarm then extra procedures and support is put into place and the customer won't be proactively moved to BT Digital Voice without the provider, customer, or telecare company confirming they have a compatible and functioning telecare solution in place. 

More about the measures here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-measures-to-better-protect-vulnerable-customers-agreed-with-t...

Also there is a trial of a service that acts like a analogue phone service to aid the migration of some customers with more complex requirements off the traditional analogue phone service. However this is only a temporary solution expected to run until 2030 and will only available to existing customers and not new customers.

See this link on SOTAP for analogue - https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/03/openreach-to-pilot-alternative-uk-analogue-phone-line-...

More information also available at:

https://landlinesgo.digital/

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/landline-phones/future-of-landline-calls

 

2. There's a stop sell in place so providers using Openreach and WLR products will not be able to offer a new traditional analogue phone service.

Some who offer full unbundled LLU maybe able to if still in a copper sell area (i.e no full fibre present and that provider has their own equipment at the local exchange)

3. When using the Openreach infrastructure, when you switch providers it triggers the closure of your account for the previous provider. This means that say you were with Sky before for broadband and phone and then move to BT. BT will let Sky know you are leaving and that BT will be taking over your broadband and phone service. This will then trigger Sky to start their account closing process.

More info here: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/switching-provider/switching-landline/

4. BT can supply a phone service over BT Digital Voice and I'm sure the moderators can help ensure everything is set up and if you have POA can guide you on how to get access to the account and manage it on your aunt's behalf.

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Message 3 of 10

Re: Help needed for vulnerable UK relative with no phone for the past year

@Gruddely I'll send you a private message so you can get in touch with more details, we'll try and track down your aunt's previous BT account and move forward from there. 

Thanks

Neil

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Message 4 of 10

Re: Help needed for vulnerable UK relative with no phone for the past year

Thank you for the helpful explanation and links. I received a PM from the moderator and will reply to that as well.

The link describing the different processes to switch over is interesting. We have no idea under what process the switch was done, but hopefully there should be some sort of documentation from BT even if my aunt no longer has an account with them. With no information, it is very difficult to unravel exactly what happened.

A Deputyship is the step beyond PoA, because a PoA can only be put in place while the individual still has mental capacity. The Local Authority initiated the Deputyship application for my aunt last year without informing all the relevant parties. My aunt's family went through a gruelling Court of Protection process to contest that application from overseas, but that's a whole other story. I see the BT link denotes Deputyship as N/A, I wonder why.

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Message 5 of 10

Re: Help needed for vulnerable UK relative with no phone for the past year

It's been a full week and still no response from BT despite providing moderator @NeilO  with all the information he requested, detailed background, and a list of specific questions around the circumstances.

BT indicated a response could be expected within 48 hours. What is the holdup?

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Message 6 of 10

Re: Help needed for vulnerable UK relative with no phone for the past year

Hi @Gruddely, sorry you've not been updated. I can see @RobbieMac is looking into this for you. I've asked him to update you tomorrow when he is back in the office.

Cheers

John

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Message 7 of 10

Re: Help needed for vulnerable UK relative with no phone for the past year

Hello @JohnC2 by the time you read this it will likely be Friday Aug 2, or the end of the second work week following my initial post.

 

In addition to receiving no response from @NeilO I have not had a response from @RobbieMac as you indicated I should expect earlier this week.  Again, what is the holdup? 

 

As I stated earlier, my aunt has had no landline service for almost a year since BT terminated it. She has never had a mobile phone or email; she is unreachable without a phone. She is elderly, vulnerable and at risk. BT needs to respond without further delay.  

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Message 8 of 10

Re: Help needed for vulnerable UK relative with no phone for the past year

A year is appalling. (My landline for no reason did not work for a month and only after the month did I get a text saying it was being fixed on the day it was fixed - not a penny of compensation has appeared on my account)

 

May be someone in the family could just post your aunt a very very large button mobile (paid for by a family member) or mobile like the Opis 60s Mobile on Amazon (IF your aunt has mobile signal in her area - we are only outer London here but mobile signal is not good and I always use the landline)

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Message 9 of 10

Re: Help needed for vulnerable UK relative with no phone for the past year

BT doesn't want to answer my questions below; the  mods don't respond. They simply say they can't help because my aunt doesn't have an active account. Obviously I already am aware of that fact, but I need to know the circumstances under which her former BT account was established. Specifically I need answers to the following questions before I would even consider opening a new BT account on her behalf. As her Court-appointed Deputy, I am authorized to access this information:

1.   The process under which the August 2023 switch from her old phone provider to BT took place, who initiated that process, and any third parties involved on my aunt’s behalf in that process.

2.   The name of her former phone service provider, and the type of phone service she had before switching to BT (I assume an analog copper landline).

3.   What happened to her existing phone service and existing phone handset(s).

4.   The full billing history since her account was opened with BT.

5.   The current status of her apparent unpaid debt to BT.

6.   The options available to restore her telephone as close to a basic landline service as possible, liaising directly with me as her Deputy on this matter.


Surely BT maintains records of its former customers, and does not simply erase all traces of their existence in less than a year? I note that under the "Gaining provider led process" the new provider "must also keep for a minimum of 12 months a record of your consent to switch services."

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/switching-provider/switching-landline/

 

No one will even tell me where I can escalate this matter with BT.

 

So what's up BT? Seriously, do I have to initiate an FOI from overseas in order to get this information?

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Message 10 of 10

Re: Help needed for vulnerable UK relative with no phone for the past year

This forum is not the place to get answers for your questions. Other than the forum moderators who are BT Employees this a customer to customer forum and as you have already dealt with the moderators there is nothing further that this forum can do for you.

If you want further information you will need to raise that directly with BT by writing to BT plc PO Box 334 Sheffield S981BT.

You can also raise a complaint with BT and if after eight weeks you have not received a resolution to your complaint you can ask for a deadlock letter and thereafter contact the Ombudsman and raise your complaint there.

For you information, the Freedom of Information Act (FOI) does not cover private companies. The Act only covers public authorities.  BT PLC is not a public authority and is not covered by the Act.

What is the FOI Act and are we covered? | ICO

What you may be wanting is a Subject Access Request

How to make a subject access request | ICO

 

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