NTE5A FTTP

[JohnRH]

I have what I will describe as what was the standard BT master socket with a split front, single outlet. I understand its a NTE5A.

I have three wired extensions going to it, one from a conventional wired phone (handy in a power cut), one going to an intruder alarm dialler, one going to my router and dect phone upstairs in my office. Yes I know people say that the router must be direct into the master socket but believe me at 23mbs service its fine for my use.

The house is around 35 years old and the master socket is in a internal hallway so not adjacent to an outside wall.

As we are about to go over the digital voice I am doing a few wiring changes to retain all the internal phone sockets which will be moved to a BT type junction box and then plugged into the router socket at the rear.

As a result the router will be moved downstairs to be next to the master socket. So a new ethernet cable will be threaded through the house from the network switch in the office along with a 12v DC supply from a UPS to run the router in a power cut.

Now the present openreach setup is FTTC and I suspect FFTP is many years away.

However, as I am threading cables through ground floor ceiling structures I am wondering what will happen the day I am changed to FTTP. Obviously right now I will retain copper cables coming into the house. But I assume that when FTTP arrives a new fibre optic cable will come up the already present external 40mm dia tube through which the present copper cable comes and will want to enter the house and fit a new "master" box.

If you recall I said that the present master socket is in an internal hall with cabling installed in a stud wall and up through to the ground floor ceiling going to an external wall where it drops down behind the dot and dab plasterboard and to the external BT feed.

I assume that on going to FTTP all that will happen is that the installer will want to fit a new "master" socket on the inside of the external wall....except that this space is a toilet....so no sockets for mains power for the router.

I fully realise that I cannot expect the installer to thread a fibre optic cable though the structure to fit a new master in place of the existing one but as I am myself threading through ethernet and 12v DC power within this void I am wondering of this is the time to simply install a flexible conduit to enable FTTP to be fed to where the existing master socket is which is also where the router would be.

Thoughts anyone?

Sorry for a long explanation.

John

[WSH]

You already seem to be aware of this but just to be crystal clear, Digital Voice (DV) does not need Full Fibre and will run over the existing copper.  I was doing that myself for two years with no problems.

What you describe sounds extremely difficult to picture and comment on constructively, but…

With DV the only thing that changes is that the phone now plugs into the back of the router instead of the old phone socket on the wall.  The main problem I would see is that while the extension can carry the broadband signal to the router upstairs but will not then be available as a phone extension to downstairs as well.  I assume this is why you are talking about moving the router downstairs.

If you put the router downstairs and the extension to upstairs is still to work as a phone extension, then it will need disconnecting from the old master socket and connecting to the phone socket on the back of the router.  There are various ways this can be done.  The key thing here is not to disconnect the incoming pair at the master socket as you will still need them for your broadband.  Connecting the extensions to the router downstairs will keep them working as phone extensions upstairs.

I assume the question about Full Fibre is a separate question for the future.  As far as Full Fibre goes, they will put the new socket, (called an ONT – Optical Network Terminal), where you want, up to a point.  It has to be do-able in the time allocated, the budget and be safe for them to do.  Also, as you say, it needs to be within reach of a power socket but an extension lead will do.

Now here’s the rub.  I suspect they will want to put it downstairs on an outside wall if they possibly can, so what I would suggest is to pick a suitable place now, (even if that remains plan B).

If you intend to have the router next to the ONT that’s fine but you could have it up to 100m away.  (As that is the theoretical max working distance for ethernet).

If you want to keep the router upstairs and if you are putting ethernet cables in walls in preparation, I would suggest running two ethernet cables side by side from that location downstairs to upstairs.  The idea here is that one carries the incoming WAN connection from the ONT up to your router and then the second one carries the internal network, the LAN, back downstairs again.  It will be a lot easier to fit two cables now rather than retrofit a second cable later and will only add pennies to the job.

I apologise if that perhaps doesn’t answer your question.  As I said, what you have described is difficult to comment on without seeing it.  Opinion will vary on this, and I would recommend listening to what iniltous has to say, as he is probably the best authority in terms of what Openreach will or will not do with a Full Fibre install.

[imjolly · Accepted solution]

this previous thread may help with getting extension phones to work after getting DV

https://community.bt.com/t5/Archive-Staging/Correct-way-to-enable-all-BT-sockets-after-Digital-Voice...

[JohnRH]

I am grateful to you for your reply.

Just to clarify, the present NTE5A master socket will remain where it is but with the extensions are being removed from it and then connected to a BT type terminal box. This will have a standard phone plug connected to that which will then plug into the the phone socket on the back of the router for DV. So making all sockets live so to speak. The router will now be plugged directly into the NTE5A master socket and not at the end of an extension. There is a mains socket adjacent to the NTE5A but this will not be used. Instead a 12v DC supply will be threaded through the floor structure along with one ethernet cable. This will give power via a UPS to the router and enable the router to connect directly to the office where a network switch is in place. That'll work I am sure.

Yes fully understand FTTC and that copper stays in place but again thanks for confirming.

The pain is where the NTE5A is, on the wall in an inner hall and not adjacent to an outside wall. So as I'm threading two cables through the ground floor ceiling.....fortunately the joists run the right way.....then I'm thinking about threading a piece of flexible trunking, say 20mm internal diameter, through as well along with a draw wire. for the future.

The trunking will terminate behind the present NTE5A and the other end behind the plasterboard on the outside wall exactly where the present BT service comes in. So enabling the ability to pull a fibre cable through to the present NTE5A and swopping that for the new ONT. A distance of just less than 2m.....the width of the toilet cloakroom.

I'm trying to future proof and make the job easy for the engineer.

I suppose a fibre cable is flexible and can be drawn through a conduit?

I assume its just a bare fibre cable with no chunky plug or connector that would need to come through.

Again, thank you for taking the time to clarify a few things.

And anyone else please comment if theres a flaw in my thinking .....well apart from the floor through which the cables will run!!!

[WSH]

It’s quite a thin cable but it does have a plug on the end, (about 10mm square, I think without measuring it).  The main thing here is that there is a maximum bend radius.  As the light travels down the fibre by internal reflection, if you bend it too tightly the light path is lost, so make sure any bends are gentle.

Also, if I didn’t say so before, the ONT does not necessarily have to be next to the old master socket.  It could be in a different location altogether.

[JohnRH]

Yes the bends would be slow bends with a decent radius.

One question.

The cable that runs from the ONT to the router, anything special, limited by length?

Thinking here that perhaps have the ONT in the cloakroom/wc and instead run this "cable" through the trunking to the router position. Does this cable have a reference number do you know?

Again my thanks.

[licquorice]

It's just normal Cat5e or above Ethernet cable, up to 100metres.

Probably best to use Cat6 

[JohnRH]

Oh right. Thanks.

So we have a cat5 or cat6 cable which is copper connecting into the ONT box which itself has a fibre optic cable coming in to provide the service.

In order to for the signals on the fibre to be converted to signals for the copper cat5 where does the power come from to operate the circuitry within the ONT.

Perhaps I answered that myself while typing the question......down the cat 5 from the router? 

Thanks again.

[licquorice]

No, the ONT is a mains powered device. 

Cat5 is not suitable, it needs to be Cat5e or above.

The external fibre terminates in an external housing (CSP) where it is spliced to the internal fibre. The internal fibre is plugged into the ONT. The router WAN port is then connected to the ONT Ethernet port.

[JohnRH]

Replying to myself.

Looked it up, so the ONT needs a power supply as well. Hadn't given it any thought until now. 

Good job I asked because I can double up the present wall socket for future but of course in order for my installation to be power cut proof....we get lots here....then a second  DC supply cable will be needed from my office UPS.

Is there anything else I need to know?

Thanks.