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Message 1 of 7

Openreach csp box - how many properties can it serve ?

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I live on a 4 house terrace and we’ve recently got fftp service added to our road. My immediate neighbour has just got connected and Openreach ran a cable from the street to a grey csp box mounted on the wall adjacent to our property. 

I’ve just recently place an fttp order with Plusnet. Can this csp be used to connect my house as well, or will a new one need to be installed ? 

As an aside .. the original plan agreed by all of us with Openreach was to mount a junction box on a side wall to the terrace and then take cables from there to each property. The engineer obviously wasn’t aware if this and hence fitted the box outside my neighbours house instead, so i’m concerned that the current placement could require more cable runs than necessary if we all require individual csp boxes …

 

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Message 2 of 7

Re: Openreach csp box - how many properties can it serve ?

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@Simopetar 

Welcome to this user forum for BT Retail phone and broadband customers.

Its Openreach not BT Retail that install the network.

As you are placing your order with Plusnet, please could you post on their user forum.

https://community.plus.net/t5/Forum/ct-p/Forum

Also bear in mind that Plusnet do not provide any phone connections anymore.

 

 

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Message 3 of 7

Re: Openreach csp box - how many properties can it serve ?

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A CSP can serve more than one property but it does depend on what  was proposed at survey , then what the installer does on the day ( it’s not always as per the survey proposal  ) ….with a terrace of properties there are a few  ways of delivering service,  and much depends if the area is currently served overhead or underground.

If the CSP was placed on your neighbours wall then obviously to serve you from it could require consent from your neighbour, if the CSP was placed exactly on the boundary between your property and their property , then although it would be a courtesy to let them know , no permission is needed.

Getting permissions is probably why a CBT ( not a CSP ) wasn’t placed on the end terrace property wall and all of the 4 properties designed to be served from it , as the CBT would require a wayleave ( permission ) and if service were required at the opposite end of the terrace from the CBT , permission would be needed from  3 intermediate properties,  as the cable to the CSP  would have to run along their house walls .

CSP are fitted by ‘installers’ when an order is received ( so after the build is completed and availability is already shown to ISP’s ) , CBT’s which are more commonly fitted at pole tops or in underground joint boxes can be wall mounted but are fitted by the build team .

If a CBT were designed to go on a wall ( privately owned or council / association owned , ) permission   sought but not granted , obviously alternative solutions are needed or those addresses simply removed from the build .

What does your address show at this site 

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

A survey note is like this , 

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

 

 

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Message 4 of 7

Re: Openreach csp box - how many properties can it serve ?

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Many thanks for your reply, very informative. It’s been a long drawn out process with Openreach and indeed we’ve already been through the process of gaining permissions. Each resident was present on the last visit, a plan was agreed to affix a junction box to the end house of the terrace and permissions in writing were given as necessary. Looks like the installer completely ignored this ! 

The link returns this result:

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Pre built to curtilage Hard.

It won’t be an issue getting permission from my neighbour to use his CSP. Would it be able to serve all 4 houses ?

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Message 5 of 7

Re: Openreach csp box - how many properties can it serve ?

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The survey return indicates that a wall mounted CBT , and therefore cable on wall ( and the potential complication from that ) was not the proposed method , so the installer did actually do the correct type of installation, the survey note for wall mounted CBT  is different to the ‘built to curtilage’  one , ( although the exact term escapes me ) and would include a ‘potential wayleave’ note , advising the installer to knock on doors if a cable had to pass over a third party’s wall .

As far as using the now existing CSP on your neighbours wall for yourself , and potentially the two other neighbours ( so four addresses in total ) , it kind of depends,

if each of these addresses were provided with their own ‘Toby box’ in the footpath, so four small toby boxes ,  then four separate CSPs ( one on each address ) would be fitted assuming at some point all addresses ordered  FTTP , but it’s also possible  there could  be two medium Toby  boxes , so one Toby  per pair of houses , but still potentially 4 CSP , as two ‘cables’ can leave  a medium  size toby box ( officially only one cable in a small Toby box ) 

You could check the footpath, how many toby boxes have been provided and  where they are located in relation to the individual units within the terrace , is it two medium Tobys placed mid point between two pairs of the addresses or four small Toby boxes , one outside each address , or even just one Toby box mid point of the entire terrace that’s already been trenched to the existing CSP, with a view to cable all four from one CSP .

FWIW , if the existing CSP is located conveniently for all properties, and it’s known that there wouldn’t be any objections if four individual cables ran from this point ,( one to each property ) , there is a special cable ( called an X cable ) that has four individual fibres inside it ( in a single outer jacket )  , it has four connectors , so can utilise four ports on the CBT , if that were used on your neighbours install ( not that likely TBH ) but there would already be useable fibres at the CSP , that just needing plugging up at the CBT and a cable from the CSP to each property in the terrace, so basically the cable to your neighbours CSP is the only cable needed back to the CBT , and is already to provide service to you and 2 others , but as stated I doubt this was supplied .

If it wasn’t an X cable , its no big deal to run more cables from the CBT  via the appropriate Toby box to either the existing CSP or to a new CSP , but the survey note suggests a new cable and new CSP for your provision , unless you intercepted the installation people and said it’s OK to use the existing CSP on your neighbours wall , they won’t object as it’s less work for them , although if  small 4 Toby boxes putting two cable through a small toby isn’t strictly allowed .

I would take a look at the footpath outside your home to see what was installed.

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Message 6 of 7

Re: Openreach csp box - how many properties can it serve ?

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A CSP can serve up to 4 Customers in total.

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Message 7 of 7

Re: Openreach csp box - how many properties can it serve ?

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Wow, that's a fantastic and detailed response. .. I had a look earlier and can only see one small toby box installed at the end of the terrace and a single cable leading to the csp, mounted mid terrace. Based on your reply I can only presume that the installer expected all properties to be served from this one csp unit if he was aware of our prior meeting with Openreach to provide all 4 houses with a connection from the street . However I'm doubting how much he cared due as it goes against any discussion held with Openreach engineers prior to his visit, backed up with some amazingly bad workmanship ( I won't bore you with the numerous details).

I'm still not convinced that the solution agreed collectively on a site visit with Openreach was updated on their system, or followed through correctly with the contractors who dug the trench and installed the Toby box, or that the installer who carried out the installation was remotely aware of that agreement, based on our experiences over the last year trying to get this all sorted. Anyway, much appreciated and I feel much better informed for when my survey engineer comes.