BT FTTP installation question (Underground wiring)

[NiKRuLeZ]

Hey all

If I order BT FTTP, will a toby box be installed outside of my property boundary, or will the fibre wire just go from the underground BT manhole using the existing ducting (currently used to supply the BT copper line) to the external CSP?

TIA!

Nik

[naylor2006]

Openreach tend to use the ducting already there often using the existing copper to pull through the fibre. I would expect youll get a new CSP also which will be inline with the ONT which will be installed inside. So if you have ducting where the copper line comes from the curb then through underground duction and enters your building then the fibre should take the same route. If not possible Openreach could dig.

Every install is different though, can depend on if Openreach are doing it or a Sub, I had a sub and although apparently subs are less favourable they actually went out of their way a little to work around something at my house they werent supposed to.

[NiKRuLeZ]

Interesting!

So whats the whole point of a Tobibox? Like what's its purpose?

[naylor2006]

Well I dont know how Openreach plan to deliver Fibre specifically in your area/road, generally if its available the infrastructure will already be done very close to the copper equipment, usually in the same manhole or up a pole, they will hook you up to a CBT and run the fibre from there through the same route the copper takes to your house.

Tobyboxes from my loose knowledge are just boxes to house underground splices, connections etc, what im trying to say is if there isnt one there Openreach I doubt will install one, their default method is following the existing copper, over head poles or underground ducting. Some houses dont even have ducting so then Openreach will dig to install the fibre. 

[iniltous · Accepted solution]

In general terms, BT then Openreach has had 3 main types of domestic installations , overhead via telegraph poles , the default for housing built up to and including  the 1950’s , housing built from around 1960 through to late 1980’s was underground but not ducted , the cables were armoured and laid direct in the ground, and 1990 through to the present day fully ducted to the house was the method used.

In nearly every case , the  existing infrastructure will dictate the way FTTP is delivered, if you currently have a service from a telegraph pole , it will be also be used for FTTP , and if you have a ducted feed , that obviously will be reused for the fibre cable , it’s only DIG / buried cables that cause an issue .

Housing built  1960-1980’s present the problem , no duct to the house , but usually existing underground infrastructure in the street ( jointboxes )  …the solution has changed , it was build a toby box outside every house connected to the existing joint boxes , when a service is ordered a small excavation from the Toby box to the house wall for the fibre ( usually through the customer’s front garden ) ,  it’s now the case that toby boxes are not provided, when a FTTP service is ordered , a duct from the appropriate jointbox to the house wall is provided….the positives of doing it this way , you don’t waste lots money providing toby boxes to every house when many will never order FTTP using Openreach, and the competitor Alt Nets can use your  Toby boxes ,(  sometimes even before Openreach have used them for OR FTTP )   , the negative is that it takes more time as the excavation now needs to be in the footpath as well as the customer garden , where with Toby boxes it was pretty much just the garden than needed excavation.

Toby boxes when installed don’t contain anything , they  are simply a ‘marker’ indicating the end of the duct from the jointbox , and the place where duct to the house is provided from , so when in use , a cable leaves the jointbox into the toby box , through the toby box into the duct to the house , they don’t contain splice points or anything like that , unused that have nothing in them at all  , ones in use used have a cable passing through them ….

its the same process as what the cable industry did 30 years ago , it simply gets the ‘duct’ as close to the customer without going into their property so no permission is needed as it’s within the public footpath but as close as possible to the customer curtilage , but as stated Openreach currently don’t look to use them the policy changed a little while ago

[naylor2006]

Well there you go OP!

[NiKRuLeZ]

Thanks for that comprehensive explanation @iniltous !

So the property I'm in currently falls under the underground wiring (streets) and there's like a hose pipe from the BT street manhole into the front of my garden. This hose piping is basically the ducting for the existing copper wire. This ducting/hose does not go all the way to the CSP on the outside of the house wall ... it only literally goes past the wall in to the very start of the front of the garden - and from there the wire just runs on the floor from the side of the wall all the way to the external house CSP.

My only worry is that the hose piping is really quite narrow ... I think it could prob at a very tight budge take another wire feed in but it's pretty tight! See image here

What would happen in this case?

[iniltous]

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

Enter your address here and post the results, the important part looks like this 

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

I won’t ask how you have a picture of your house lead in an opened jointbox  , the image isn’t particularly clear but there was  for a period something called Duct  100 ( a 1 inch duct ) that was used , a bit like a rigid hose pipe and although called a duct it was more something to encase the copper cable  , and as you state , it’s not really a big enough duct to get a second cable in alongside the copper one , and often the duct 100 doesn’t run the entire distance from the box to house wall , in these cases although Openreach  may try to get a second cable into the D100 , it should be treated as if there were no duct at all , so a brand new duct 56 ( a 2.5 inch duct ) to the house from the box in the photo 

[NiKRuLeZ]

This is what is reads:

FTTP is not available.

The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme

As a WLR withdrawal exchange, product restrictions apply

SOADSL is not restricted at the exchange

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

For all SOADSL services,the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

Actual speeds experienced by end users and quoted by CPs will be lower due to a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.

If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service

ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL availability: If shown at FTTP or SOGEA premises,ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL are not available to order due to WLR Withdrawal stop sell rules. CPs should order FTTP or SOGEA. Copper products are only available by exception.

Thank you for your interest

When you say Openreach will install a new duct 56 ... will this be like this existing Duct  100 which only goes past the front wall and only to the front of the garden, or will this duct run all the way from the BT manhole to the premises CSP situated on the wall?

[iniltous]

What makes you think FTTP is available as from what you have posted FTTP isn’t available at your location