Underground ducting direct to property?

[36ULW]

Openreach don’t use Toby Boxes anymore, they briefly used them for a couple of years but have stopped now for a variety of reasons.

Instead now on DIG Sites they’ll put a CBT in either the nearest 4 or 6 box or possibly have to build a new one. Then when EU’s order FTTP they will then duct all the way up to their property from where the CBT is. 

[iniltous]

The Openreach planning policy changed somewhere between 2022-2023 , that’s when designing DIG  areas  was changed from planning to use Toby boxes to only using existing plant ( duct and joint boxes  ) , to  save money and not  give the Alt Net competition an even bigger advantage than the one they already enjoy , the planner simply plans  for the CBTs to be  in the nearest existing correct size joint box  , no new duct  or jointboxes are provided, and nothing further is done  until an order is received , there is no point providing a toby box in this scenario…this policy does have disadvantages though , as the number of CBTs in a single box has a limit , so some addresses may find they are excluded when very near neighbours can order FTTP , simply because of the existing jointbox capacity,

The late 1970’s was when the copper network build changed to  UR ( underground radial ) DP’s , from simply ‘U’ underground ,  UR used many more underground jointboxes and that is much more forgiving than the early ‘U’ underground DP’s where a DIG area may have virtually no concrete lidded jointboxes and very little duct , using prefabricated  boxes like JB23’s , which cannot house a single CBT .

The odd thing is the SNN ( survey note ) still states built to the curtilage, which suggests the survey was done much earlier than the FND network build was done  , that could explain why it’s been done this way.

TBH most of this is explanation is ‘nerdy’ , from the consumer point of view it matters little apart from it will probably take longer when service delivery realise they have to provide much more ‘ civils ‘ work rather than simply a dig across someone’s garden from a Toby box 

[Iceman1]

Do Openreach know or have a plan on where the existing ducting is ran? So if the ducting is blocked, they can can just dig at that point rather than a full trench?

[iniltous]

If it’s a DIG estate then what duct ?,

if you mean the duct that already exists between joint boxes in the public footpath  ( effectively connecting the underground jointbox network together ) then yes there are plans for these ducts  , but running a complete new overlay duct between existing joint boxes when a duct exists already ( but is blocked )  is not the go to solution, the obviously solution is to fix the existing duct and although duct plans are available the location of an stoppage has to be determined in a manual way ….this is necessary regardless of duct records 

[Iceman1]

Thanks.

Also do BT/Openreach cover the full cost of installation? For example, worst case if they need to do groundworks and takes 4 days, will it be covered?

I ask as you hear some stories where the customer has been told to pay several thousands of pounds.

[iniltous]

Openreach FTTP network construction has no  more to do with BT , than it would do with Sky or Talk Talk  ,

If FTTP is shown as available to order , and an ISP takes the order for an address  , OR decides if that order can be satisfied using the arbitrary ‘spend’ limit , or if a contribution will be needed towards the costs , ultimately any contribution required is paid by the end user, if the spend required to get service is above the allowed budget per dwelling.

Openreach are not a charity, so getting a customer onto FTTP is desirable , it does has financial limits , it’s not provided at any cost , knowing where those financial limits are isn’t necessarily going to be known here and may vary depending on many things , so two seemingly similar dwellings could have one needing a contribution and one not needing a contribution , however , there is always the option to cancel the order  should a customer of an ISP that raises an order for FTTP  be advised that there are going to be excess costs , (these costs are presented before a commitment ) , so if the excess construction price is too much , they can cancel penalty free .

Generally any ‘work’ needed in public land , unless it can only benefit the person making the order is not chargable, it’s classed as fixing or extending the Openreach network and other users may well be able to benefit…..if considerable work were needed entirely in private land (  so as an example alongside a farmtrack to reach a single farmhouse ) that would be chargable , and if considerable work were also needed in the public road , but only that single farmhouse could benefit ( because no other dwellings are passed ) then although that work is in the public area it may also be chargable.

In most regular domestic settings , excess construction is unlikely , but can’t be ruled out either …..there is no point on a forum such as this speculating if you ( in your area ) will have excess charges , and it doesn’t matter anyway … you place  an order with your choice of an ISP , ( that order costs you nothing ) , if it turns out Openreach requires excess construction costs and you don’t want to pay , you cancel your order  , it still has cost you nothing .

Basically it’s nonsense to worry about  if excess costs will be due , they don’t just start digging and expect you pay the bill  because you made an order , you get the choice to proceed or not before you hand over a penny  , and as stated that’s in the highly unlikely situation of charges in a regular residential area 

[licquorice]

Exactly. The whole thread is totally pointless, it has nothing whatsoever to do with BT and any answers are pure speculation and guesswork.

I have asked the mods to lock the thread.