Fibre now only option trapped 90 year old aunt

[mnbvcxz]

OK So 90 year old aunt on John Lewis adsl. End of contract, price going up, John Lewis is closing so no new contracts.

Always told too far from exchange for fttc so adsl only option. 10mbs achieved on her line. Usable.

But when looking at her options (very few for adsl) I found a bunch of made up addresses for her farm so I asked openreach what was going on and they said actually she always could have had fibre optic but they had typed in her address wrong in the database... 

Which would be great except her house now comes up as having fibre installed with no adsl options. So I have trapped her. She can't stay with John Lewis but nor can she leave without quite alot of change.

One person at BT says openreach would do a survey before migrating her phoneline and she would have the option to refuse the fibre install if it was too disruptive. Which it might be, 400m up a rough track, recently resurfaced and quite possibly trenching through some drains and under a railways bridge.  But what happens if she says no? Does she get the adsl option back? Does her phone number get migrated to a canceled order and lost?

Fibre sounds a good thing but she is 90 and really just wants things to stay the same and not worry if her alert gadget and burglar alarm will keep working, or what happens if there is a mistake and she loses her number or is left without a landline for a while with a poor mobile signal.

Another person at BT says oh you get no choice at a survey just a 14 day cooling off period which does not sound helpful as what happens then?

Yet another Bt person claims Full Fibre 2 is really fttc despite all evidence to the contrary? 

I seem to have really mucked up by Aunts life. Any ideas? Either how to keep the adsl option or indeed to move to fibre with the least chance of cutting her off?

Ideally BT would temporarily migrate her to BT adsl, she could use her existing router. And then install fibre at their leisure and not migrate her number and end the copper until it and digital voice was all setup and working. But its not clear that anyone has the flexibility to do that.  It's just sales people who say I can sell you this but thats it.

Oh I tried calling 0800 587 4787 but it never seems to get to a fttp team?

Thanks

[imjolly]

Can you not just stay with John Lewis on a rolling monthly contract so effectively not renewing your existing contract.  Might be increase in cost but at least you would continue existing connection

[rbz5416]

John Lewis broadband is by Plusnet. There is a dedicated page on the JL web site that deals with migrating accounts to Plusnet. Go to FAQs & then scroll down to Important News.

As the JL brand is simply fronting the Plusnet account, it should be pretty straightforward to keep what she has.

[iniltous]

I suspect you have not been correctly informed, there is a pretty good chance that if FTTP is available, and the CBT ( essentially the fibre distribution point ) is placed in the public footpath/highway , probably a pole if a rural area , and it’s around 400m from the actual property, then although the address may show availability, it won’t necessarily be installed completely ‘free’ …the existing copper pair that could be used for ADSL/FTTC , is probably DIG (direct  in the ground , not ducted) as you can imagine it’s going to be expensive to install duct  from the curtilage to the building to put a fibre cable inside it , the preferred method would be to install poles , 400m could mean around 6 poles , Openreach will not absorb the entire installation cost, even if BT accept an order for FTTP in these circumstances 

[mnbvcxz]

Thank-you for the thoughts. Yes she could have moved to plus.net (actually BT adsl was slightly cheaper) but because the computer now says fibre only she can't migrate her plus.net run adsl to plus.net. They just don't get the option. Nor BT. Its ridiculous but my fault. I honestly thought they had just muddled her address with her neighbors I did not realise it would change everything.

Yes she can just stay on John Lewis at 50% more on a rolling contract. It's what she is doing now. But its not a long term solution is it? I don't know what will happen but being left on a closing service doesn't sound safe.

I don't know if the change in fibre optic availability is true. But its meant to be a fiber only village so it may be that her farm was just left out and they have now realized. Or it may all be a mistake. What terrifies her is if she signs up for fibre and it doesn't happen but they can't do adsl any more will she just fall into a black hole and lose everything?

The irony is many people would kill for full fibre. The copper up her drive is mostly on accessible poles, it might all be doable and digital voice might be a clearer line and work seamlessly with her telephone extensions.  But it turns out to be more than she can cope with and  the gap between moving from adsl to fibre is hard to make out even to me. If she had the choice she might still be better to choose fibre but she doesn't agree yet doesn't get the choice...

[rbz5416]

Then the way forward should  be to order a FTTP service with her choice of provider, but as an additional service rather than a migration. So you'll maybe need to supervise the new order & ensure that the old service isn't terminated. If it all goes through OK she can hopefully then terminate the ADSL service & migrate the phone number over.

If she wants to go with BT then you really need further input from @iniltous as to exactly how this process needs to be conducted to minimise a visit from Mr Cockup!

[garybs29]

TBH it probably doesn't even need to be as a separate brand new line. If FTTP is ordered but can't be installed then the order would be cancelled & the copper connection would remain in place

[36ULW]

If the CBT for FTTP is more than 400m away you shouldn’t be able to order it as the maximum length of a Connectorised Drop Cable is 350m.

If it’s Blown Fibre Tubing then that’s a different story. They’d still have to put in 400m of Tubing and blowing a 4 fibre bundle over that length should be relatively easy.

[iniltous]

If the copper pair service uses poles , then those poles are ‘carrier’ poles from the distribution point (DP) pole and even if sited on a private driveway are still Openreach’s property and responsibility, so if the copper pair cable is strung between them , then there is no reason why a fibre cable cannot also provided using the same poles in the same way , however, in this situation a separate CBT would normally be sited on the last carrier pole at the property end of the route , as well as the DP pole for those addresses directly served from the DP , this is done when the PON is constructed , even if that CBT on the last carrier pole would only serve one address , it makes sense so as to minimise the work for the installation group , so should an order for FTTP service be received, the max length of a connectorised lead in is irrelevant in that case , (if there is a  CBT on the last pole ) .

So , is there there a CBT on the ‘last’ pole before the property ?,

If the current copper pair service running along the private  driveway is a mix of some underground between poles ( for example passing under power lines has to be underground ) and overhead between poles , then obviously the ‘civils’ requirement is less , as it’s only the underground section ( or sections) that would require expenditure, and the entire job more likely to be within the cost restraints OR place on any individual installation, but it could mean there is no CBT on the last carrier pole.

There was a case , in a stop sell area for copper based products, a consumer in what would seem to be a similar situation, in an FTTP area , albeit remote from the serving CBT their address was designed to use ,  didn’t use the appropriate ordering process, tying the provision and cessation together, and effectively cancelled the copper service independently and ordered FTTP separately ,  the copper service ceased ( as they requested on the date the consumer asked for ) , OR turned up for the FTTP installation, and after realising the extent of the work needed , delayed the installation while costs were defined, and then asked the consumer for a contribution towards those  installation costs ( so not the full amount , but a contribution ) , the consumer baulked at this and cancelled the FTTP , but because they had independently ceased the copper pair service, and the area was stop sell for copper , they were left with neither the FTTC they once had , ( and couldn’t return to it ) or FTTP , if the two orders were linked the cancellation of FTTP would have allowed the previous service to continue.

This should be a cautionary tale to tread carefully, many consumers will be on copper service for a significant period, but if the area they reside has majority FTTP availability ( 75% ) then copper stop sell will restrict their  ability to shop around while they remain on copper , they won’t be forced off copper though .

[mnbvcxz]

Well, thank you for the ideas, we have kind of found a way  forward. We found a different, slightly more expensive, provider who were confident they could add a fibre optic line without disturbing her existing setup and then move her phone number over later, even mid contract, once everyone was up and working. Which sounds like a reasonable way forward. I suspect BT could have done this if I had ever found out how to get to the right person but I just ended up with sales people who would say once you start the contract you can only alter it by buying it out and starting a new one. They had no flexibility. Ah well.

Anyway maybe I'm just a drama queen and my aunt a little cowardly with age. It may work out well. Though if I had left it alone she would be paying £7 less on BT adsl by now and much happier. If I remember I will try and post a note in a few months on if it worked. I'm afraid I don't really know what a fibre box looks like but last time I checked a cable comes out of the ground at the main road below her farm and up a pole then up her driveway. A single presumably copper cable. But the village does mostly all have fibre and they did get a big dollop of Cornish grant money so perhaps there is provision to hook her up. We shall see.

Anyway thanks for the ideas.