FTTP

[Patwood]

Hi

I have a very confusing situation. We operate a business from the bottom of the garden, entirely separate from the house, rated separately as business premises with its own phone line, number and broadband. It does have the same address although we do refer to it as Unit 1.

We recently upgraded to fibre in the house with BT with no problems.

The business contract with Plusnet for broadband and phone is now coming to an end and as they are discontinuing business services we are looking for a new provider and naturally would prefer to upgrade to fibre. We have had a quote from Sky Connect which appears to be fairly straightforward. Not so with BT!

Initially on live chat I was told that the address did not come up on the system, they would have to install a phone line and then tell me if broadband was available. (We have had phoneline and broadband to the business premises since 2006 ) . Sorry they could not help me!!  And I did double check that I had entered the address and postcode correctly.

I then phoned and spoke to a sales advisor.  I was told that if they installed fibre to the business premises it would then be discontinued to the house as the address was the same and there could be only one fibre supply to the address - despite there being completely separate phone lines and numbers for the house and business premises. (At least they acknowledged that the address appeared on the system)

I am at a complete loss as to how to proceed and I would be grateful if someone could explain the logic to me, as, despite having a Maths degree, I cannot work it out.

[Keith_Beddoe · Accepted solution]

@Patwood 

Welcome to the BT Residential Customers forum

As you are a business user, please could you post on the BT Business forum at http://business.forums.bt.com/

Thanks

[iniltous]

Use your ‘business’ address on the DSL checker and post the full results including the survey notes.

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

[Patwood]

I have entered UPRN for the business premises which it shares with the house - which I expected as it shares the same address. It is separate from the house and pays business rates. It has had its own phone line and number since 2006 and is effectively separate from the house.

The website states 'Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises  Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH feed with no anticipated issues. ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered'

It appears that for  fibre broadband, the business premises are considered part of the house as they share an address. This is a rural area with, I think six scattered properties sharing the same postcode.  When we built the workshop we didn't think it necessary to give the business premises a separate name, referring to it as Berrington Press, Unit 1 Cae Brane.

I was informed by a member of the BT sales team that if fibre  broadband were to be installed in the business premises, it would be disconnected from the house. Surely there must be some way of resolving this,

[jac_95]

How the systems work is they map the UPRN to an account which is common across the industry and is used by Openreach and suppliers too to map and plan the network topology.

I would probably advise is you want separate accounts to register it as a separate property otherwise it could cause issues. Same probably applies to some other utilities.

Saying that you could order and insist on it being a second fibre connection (e.g a separate fibre line)

[iniltous]

The fact that you state the UPRN ( unique property reference number ) is shared between the residential and business suggests there isn’t two dwellings ( one business, one residential ) and  as far as Openreach are concerned, it’s one address , and the address is already served ,  if you had ordered with the ISP that said they wouldn’t have a problem getting service into the business, they probably would have inadvertently messed up your existing ‘home’ service .

Strictly speaking , if you order a second service it should be delivered via the existing cabling to the existing ONT , the single port ONT would be replaced with a multi port one,

On this and other similar forums, there is a suggestion that an order for a second service would be via a second single port ONT , even though that unnecessarily uses up a CBT port , and requires a new connectorised cable to the property from the pole or underground chamber , although this would suit your situation better , the correct method probably  presenting problems if you then need to provide an Ethernet ‘cable’ between where the ONT currently is , and where you would prefer to site the second router ( presumably in the business part of the address ) 

It should be possible to order a second service , without affecting the existing service , with the proviso that swapping the ONT will cause a period where the existing service is down (hopefully a brief period ), but this needs to be realised at order entry , and care taken that the ISP order a second service and not a migration of the existing service .

You could try the BT FTTP team ( find the number searching this forum) , a possible issue is  if you require a business tariff , with  them being a consumer team ,  but they may be better able to order a second service , than regular customers service who may simply see the address as already served.

Should you be successful in getting a second service ordered , and it raised  correctly ( using a multi port ONT ) the Ethernet connection between the ONT and the business part of the property would be your own responsibility, if they raise it in such a way that a second single port ONT is ‘ordered’ although wrong ( and assuming a port is spare at the CBT ) although incorrect, would be better for your circumstances, but getting the second service ordered ( as you have already found ) can be easier said than done.

[Patwood]

Thank you. There has never been a problem before with utilities or the existing line and business contract with Plusnet (since 2006). It is difficult to understand why fibre should be different. There is a separate ADSL line to the property which presumably will become defunct in 2025. This requires some thought.

[Patwood]

Thank you. When we recently upgraded to fibre in the house, the copper cable from the pole was replaced by fibre. In my ignorance I assumed that the copper cable (from the pole that serves the workshop) could be similarly replaced. The phone lines to the business and the house have always been completely independent. It seems that fibre is a different matter and requires more thought.

[iniltous]

Part of the ‘problem’ when comparing FTTP with copper based services ( even if both Openreach ) , is when an area is surveyed for FTTP by OR , the size of the network required is determined, and it’s on the basis of one connection ( CBT port ) per SDU or UPRN, and although it’s unlikely that OR FTTP would ever service every property in that area , a second service, if provided by a second CBT port , potentially is at the expense of someone else in that area , not being able to order FTTP .

Multiple copper lines into one address is commonplace , and the copper network wasn’t designed on the same way , it evolved over time .

A consumer wanting two OR FTTP services into one dwelling, given the bandwidth available on one connection, it’s not a situation that will have presented itself very often , and possibly outside a regular customer service reps experience.

It will be possible to get two services , in fact there is a post on a similar forum ( not aligned to any particular ISP ) of someone going through the same process ( although not using BT ), it will be interesting to discover if they get a second single port ONT or a multi port ONT.